forced back or not forced back... that is the question?

We played a game the other night in which a platoon was forced back as a result of artillery fire. The owning player then tried to move his unit that was forced back during the movement phase. I disallowed it but when I checked the rule book under the effects of forced back it made no prohibition against it. This leads me to think that there may be different effects for forced backs that occur as a result of fires as opposed to forced back results from moral failure. Even the Pan-Galactic champion was puzzled.

I think that units that are forced back are in effect making their move for that turn... otherwise units forced out by artillery can move right back in if they move first or if the location is not contested.
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Forge the Thunderbolt

FB in the prep/arty phase usually puts a unit outside of the order chit radius, thus making it impossible to move in the ensuing move phase.

OT,

Being forced back by fire does not affect a unit's ability to follow orders, unless it forces the stand to fall back outside 6 inches of its order cube.

See this thread:

http://testofbattle.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2260&sid=13fe33c54e1cabbed4d6ebf98292ccdd

Specifically:

"Effects on Movement
Stands that are forced back outside of 6 inches of their order cube, they may not follow that order. If, at the end of being forced back, they are still within 6 inches of the order cube, they may follow that order."

You can also reference page 21 of the rulebook, rule:

6.5 Indirect Fire and Orders
Indirect fire is resolved in a turn after orders have
been issued, but before orders are revealed. (Rule 4,
phase 1.c.) The order is revealed and takes effect even
if the command stand which issued it is forced back or
eliminated by indirect fire; however, any stand forced
back by indirect fire and, therefore, no longer in the 6-
inch effect radius of the order marker does not follow
the order.

If, for some reason, the stand does not fall back more than 6 inches from its order cube, i.e. they are at the edge of a wood, and the force back brings them deeper into the woods, then they could, if they desired, stop 1 inch in, since it would break LOS with the enemy.

They may, in this case, be able to move back into position - but there are two important caveats:

1) They have to be given a full advance order - because once they are driven out of the template by the force back, if they attempt to move into the template again, it costs them a BMA. So if they were operating under a cautious advance, they could not actually get back into the position they were originally in.

2) Even if given a hasty advance, if they entered the template again during the movement phase, they would be allowing the template to attack them again during the Opp fire phase (see rule 17.6) - and this time without any benefit of cover, since they are Hasty Advancing.

So to sum up, if the stand which was forced back ended up within 6 inches of its order cube, then it could have obeyed that order, per the rules.

Just for future reference - as we all know, you made the call as the referee, and the referee is always right at the time the game is played.

And its worth remembering that even though a stand forced back by IDF
may be able to move in the movement phase, it cannot fire in any of the subsequent fire phases that turn. Rule 19.1.1.
Jerry

Howdy,

This is the off-topic forum. Hmmm ...

Ponder on,

JAS
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This message composed and sent using 100 percent recycled electrons.

Jessee,

This is in the off topic forum because this is were OT chose to post this thread.

Thanks guys for the great answers! I am going to print this and post it in my rule book. I am also adding the rule in the designers note on page 56 that states "forced back units may not fire" into my index.

Again this is a big help!

Thank you.
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Forge the Thunderbolt

OT,

No problem whatsoever

Jessee:

I moved it to the Rules Questions. Feel better now??

quote:

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Originally posted by Jessee:
Howdy,

This is the off-topic forum. Hmmm ...

Ponder on,

JAS

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I think I remember this - I think I eyeballed the distance and made a quick call. I'll be more careful next time.
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"The basic difference between an ordinary man and a warrior is that a warrior takes everything as a challenge, while an ordinary man takes everything as a blessing or a curse." ~Don Juan

The refereee should never "eyeball the distance", Private!

quote:

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Originally posted by Cheese:
I think I remember this - I think I eyeballed the distance and made a quick call. I'll be more careful next time.

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Wow, it's been nearly a year since I was on the opposite side of a question from Dudley!! On the contrary, sir, I think that the referee should often be able to eyeball a distance. I often do this, and even when there is not GeoHex in the vicinity (12" from side to side of a hex, makes for a good range finder), I'm usually within an inch or less of accurate. And if its a question of is it more than 10", 15", etc its usually pretty obvious to anyone who has been doing this for, lets see... nearly 30 years?

I first noted this when playing Fletcher Pratt naval rules on the floor of a warehouse (you know, the game where the player, in addition to playing the role of a flotilla commander, also plays the rangefinder - you shoot by guessing the range to the target, in inches, and with the ships firing at up to four to six yards range!). I noted that the player-referee, who was measuring every shot, was a LOT better at estimating the ranges than those of us playing the game for the first (and also the last in my case) time.

But in the spirit of CD, especially TOB with its emphasis on keeping the game moving, I would think the referee's eyeball would be preferable to a tape measure in many cases. I mean, are you trying to tell me that while enemy tanks within 500 yards will trigger a morale check with a significant bad modifier, tanks at 550 yards have no effect? Life is not so precise.

That said, we measure if its close, or someone thinks the ref's eyeballs are maybe a little blurry, or, of course, those who prefer to delay the game by quibbling about everything...

I have played lots of "guess the range" naval minis and frequently wondered what I was recreating: The gunner/rangefinder or the captain of the ship (or both?) It's fun, particularly after a few ginger ales, when my estimating skills actually improve!

But I have no pretenses about the realism of the game. Didn't even the WW1 era gunners have rangefinders?

Ah, Jack, I should have known my comment would draw you in like a moth to a flame. Actually, I was just pulling Sal's leg. I have, in my time, been known to at least attempt to eyeball a distance.

I will admit, however, my eyes are not as good as they used to be. Of course, they were never very good in the first place, which might explain some of the rulings I've made over the years...

quote:

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Originally posted by Jack Radey:
Wow, it's been nearly a year since I was on the opposite side of a question from Dudley!!

......

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